inexpensive residential wind turbine
by rd @ 11:06 am 82 comments »
Don’t look now but it appears residential renewable energy systems and wind power technology are getting cheaper. California based Freetricity’s E2D Windmaster is a roof-mounted small residential wind turbine that comes with an affordable price tag. Though it sports a small propeller that could prove hazardous to hummingbirds and the like (though its size and roof mounting will reduce bird and animal interactions) and doesn’t look like it could withstand hurricane-force winds, the price and benefits may make it worth exploring.
From their press release (via: newswire)
“Freetricity introduces the all-new WindMaster, a roof mounted micro wind turbine that can generate enough energy to turn your electric meter backwards. Reasonably priced the WindMaster is small enough to be used in urban areas yet powerful enough to lower electric bills 25%-50%, or more.
WindMaster is available in four different power packages. The Grid Connects unique design is the most convenient system and supplies the most kilowatt-hours of power of all the packages. Simply mount the wind turbine to your roof, wire it to the grid connect inverter, and wire the inverter into the supply panel. The power generated by the WindMaster is supplied to your homes supply panel first; however, if it generates more power than you are currently using it will spin your meter backwards. Your electric company will then give you credit or cash for the power you generate.
The 12-Volt, 24 and 48-Volt packages are battery-based systems. They charge the battery first then supply the users home with the stored voltage and current through a DC to AC inverter. The 12-Volt Basic package is the starter system and because it is easy to regulate the output of the WindMaster, it can be upgraded to any other E2D system. This upgrade ability applies to all system packages and is unique to the renewable industry.
The WindMaster is weather-resistant and constructed of high-impact, powder-coated steel and comes with a five-year warranty. This unique system can also be used as a stand-alone backup system for electrical blackout and /or brownouts.”
The larger 48volt model produces 300 to 400 kwh per month with 6 hours of 12mph wind a day. Models range in price from $1,399 (12v) to $2,299 (48V) @ freetricity.com
other altcon posts on wind power:
Our latest: Windspire - affordable wind power
aerotecture international - urban wind power
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$1,400 to $2,300 is not “inexpensive” or “affordable.”
Not everyone, even in the united States, lives in the carefree lap of luxury.
Everything is relative. Yes $2,000 is a lot of money but most wind turbine installations cost over $8,000 and take over 10 years to pay off in energy saved with tax breaks etc. This type of rooftop system could conceivably pay for itself sooner and be easier to finance. The mere fact that manufacturers are designing systems for lower price points is a positive going forward. Some people can spend $2,000 on a tv.
They claim to produce 400 kwh a month with 6 hours of 12 mph wind.
Let’s do the math:
400 kwh a month running 6 hours/day has to equal a unit that produces 2,220 watts in 12 mph wind.
(2220 * 24 * 30 * (6/24))
At 12 mph (5.36448 m/s), there is 94.48 watts per square meter (.5 * 1.224 * 5.36448^3) . Divide 2,220 by 94.48 and you get 23.49 sq meters. Divide that by the very high 30% efficiency and you get 78.3 sq meters required. 78.3 sq meters = 842.814185628393 sq ft
Using pi * r^2, we come up with the 16.37 for the radius of the turbine or a diameter of 32.75 feet across.
They should be congratulated. I bet they can turn lead into gold, too.
That’s some crazy math. Thanks for taking the time. We’ll contact the company and see what they say. I have to think a turbine this size can only be expected to offset a percentage of electricity use. I do like the fact that companies are at least trying to develop products on the less expensive side of the equation. Skepticism is always a good thing.
Yes - This company seems to have mis-quoted their performance data - they probably meant 400 kWH per year, which seems doable, and at an average of $.15 per kWH would save the owner $60 per year, offering a 25-30 year payback, which is typical of small wind turbines.
The best way to verify this would be to ask the company for actual (verified) data from 3 or 4 customer sites, which they should readily provide.
Their kWH performance figures are per month which would cut the payback time exponentially. We will try to get them to verify or explain their performance claims.
Skeptic Ones says:
“Let’s do the math:
400 kwh a month running 6 hours/day has to equal a unit that produces 2,220 watts in 12 mph wind.
(2220 * 24 * 30 * (6/24))
At 12 mph (5.36448 m/s), there is 94.48 watts per square meter (.5 * 1.224 * 5.36448^3) . Divide 2,220 by 94.48 and you get 23.49 sq meters. Divide that by the very high 30% efficiency and you get 78.3 sq meters required. 78.3 sq meters = 842.814185628393 sq ft
Using pi * r^2, we come up with the 16.37 for the radius of the turbine or a diameter of 32.75 feet across.
They should be congratulated. I bet they can turn lead into gold, too.”
Interesting use of math skeptic!
So, what you are saying is that the wind turbines here in Palm Springs (link: http://www.oceanlight.com/spotlight.php?img=06857) area can only generate 400 kwh’s a month and not the 300 kilo watts per hour that they actually do?
32.75 feet across indeed!
Another thing to consider when looking at their pricing is that there are several federal, state and local rebates and credits that we receive when we purchase renewable products that would lower the price dramatically.
I just clicked on their “find your rebates” link and filled out the form presented. I’ll post that result a bit later.
Regarding the ‘math’ I used, I refer you to the AMERICAN WIND ENERGY ASSOCIATION’s web site for a complete explanation. Specifically, http://www.awea.org/faq/windpower.html. There is a wealth of information that will explain the actual power available in the wind on their site.
Also, go to Fat Spaniel and look at the USDA testing in Bushland, TX. They have a SkyStream 3.7 (about 12 ft across) on a 30+ ft tower. The windmill is rated by the company at 1,200 kwh/month. Constantly running in high wind, the unit had actually produced only 2,200 kwh in 11 months (200 kwh/month) when last I looked. You can call the USDA in Bushland and talk to them about it.
Wind is a good resource, but people must be told the facts.
.
“Regarding the ‘math’ I used, I refer you to the AMERICAN WIND ENERGY ASSOCIATION’s web site for a complete explanation. Specifically, http://www.awea.org/faq/windpower.html. There is a wealth of information that will explain the actual power available in the wind on their site.
>
Bad data and bad links?
.
You have to remove the period from the end of the URL link. I’ll do it for you.
http://www.awea.org/faq/windpower.html
So - should I not buy one? Has anyone bought one and been happy/sad about it?
I’d love to hear back.
I’m confused.
Taking the equation from that website, I get
P = .5 x 1.225 X 5.067 x .3 x 9^3 x .8 x.9
(That’s .5 x rho x area in m^2 x 30% efficiency x 20mph winds (from their example), x .9 for bearing efficiency.)
What I end up with is Power (Watts) = 488.
So, with a sustained wind, it’ll generate 488 watts. What I don’t get is
A) Over what period of time are those 488 watts generated?
B) Is 20 mph wind a reasonable estimate?
C) Given that 488 watt generation power, what is the monthly kilowatt hour estimate?
I just really want to know before I invest in something like this. That’s a WHOLE BOATLOAD OF MONEY, and if it doesn’t GREATLY offset my power bill, I’m in a heap-o-trouble.
Thanks kindly,
Mike
I just ordered one but it wont be here until the first week in April.
From what I can gather from their website the WindMaster is a new product and aside from “skeptics” faulty math and formula it seems like a great product with a worthwhile application.
Their website just changed with updated pictures of the device and it seems they have changed the prop design a lot.
Also, I just got back my rebates request info and in California these machines end up being only a couple hundred dollars.
To answer the question, 20 mph (8.9408 m/s) is very high and unlikely to be sustained. The windmill in question claims 12 mph for only 6 hours a day so divide any amount by 4.
Using the standard formula of 0.5 times density of air times the wind speed cubed, we find that (.5 * 1.224 * 8.9408^3) is 437 watts per square meter of swept area at 20 mph. While at 12 mph (5.36448 m/s), using (.5 * 1.224 * 5.36448^3) we get 94.7 watts per square meter of swept area at 12 mph. A huge difference between 94 watts and 437 watts. Using the Betz ( http://www.windpower.org/en/stat/betzpro.htm )limitations, the numbers should be reduced by a further 70%.
If a windmill generates 488 watts constantly, calculating the monthly kwh is merely watts times 24 hours in a day times 30 days in a month. (488 * 24 * 30) = 351.360 kwh a month. Remember, national studies show that even legitimate manufacturers only do 30% of nameplate.
Go to http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps/chap2/2-01m.html to get a realistic assessment of your wind potential. I strongly recommend you look at all the web sites that deal with wind that are not sponsored by a manufacturer. Denmark has a lot of good sites that are very informative such as http://www.windpower.org .
Finally, I get the distinct feeling the person frantically beating the band for these units and calling accepted scientific analysis faulty without any basis is connected with the company. Be careful.
I am looking into alternate resources as well. How do know what my kwh useage is and how do I find a wind turbine best suited for our home. Our house in around 4ooo sqft. Is this turbine suitable? The price is always a factor, but I have always been told if it seems to good to be true, it usually is!
Okay, this is starting to get a bit silly skeptic! Better beware though because I also represent the CIA, Apple and Microsoft!
Let’s start with a known turbines output. California’s Coachella Valley has been using wind turbines for over 40 years.
A typical wind generator is 180 feet tall with a prop diameter of 100 feet. These are 1.5 mega watt generators that produce 5 million kilo watt hours a year, enough for 500 homes!!
100 foot prop diameter creating 5 million kwh’s a year and you would want us to believe your following comment:
“Using pi * r^2, we come up with the 16.37 for the radius of the turbine or a diameter of 32.75 feet across.”
So, let me make sure I understand you and your formula.
1) According to you it takes a prop diameter of 32.75 feet to produce just 400 kwh’s a month.
2) And yet the proven wind farms turbine with a prop diameter of 100 feet factually produces 5 million kwh’s a year or 416,000 kwh’s a month!
Your formula, position and accusations are way off base skeptic.
Do yourself a favor, take the above known quantity wind farm generator’s output and apply your formula backwards starting with the known output first.
Is there a distributor in Rapid City, SD for the 300 Watt units?
Mary,
Just link to Freeticity (link in original post at top.) Or give them a call on the toll free number that’s provided on their site. We are not a rep for the company, but someone there will be able to help you.
Anyone comparing these to what real wind turbines can do, such as the 150 ft and 180 ft, units cited is automatically suspect. Those units typically cost a quarter million each and yes they produce, in windy areas, the wattage described, but come on, no one is going to take you at all seriously when you compare them to a micro-wind turbine. Maybe 100 kwh/month, in good wind conditions, at most. Look at some of the more reputable companies and see what they claim for these type of units.
To see how much electricity you use check your power bill and look for kwh/day or per month. Typical usage for a family of 4 is around 800 kwh/month.
As a comparison you may want to take a look at another micro turbine that looks pretty close to the one described above. Btw they do not recommend roof-top mounting which is another red flag. This turbine will produce on average about 2kw per day, but up to 4kw in optimal conditions. (60-120kw)/month. So…
http://www.futurenergy.co.uk/turbine.html
Btw Terrance if you knew anything about windpower you would know that it does not scale as you describe. Do a little reading on the subject, sceptic’s math is probably pretty close. So using your logic if 100 ft diameter does 416thousand kwh/month then 50 ft diameter would do 208thousand kwh/month, 25 ft would do 104thousand kwh/month, 12 ft would do 52thousand kwh/month. See. You don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Sorry.
ffbj says:
“Anyone comparing these to what real wind turbines can do, such as the 150 ft and 180 ft, units cited is automatically suspect.”
*** Well geeze ffbj shouldn’t the formula provided by skeptic apply to all wind power?
ffbj then says:
“yes they produce, in windy areas, the wattage described”
*** Thank you! Now tell us again why skeptics formula shouldn’t apply to all size wind turbines?
It’s not just about size it’s also about location, mast height, swept area, turbulence..etc…There are many factors that determine power output. I showed you a link to a reputable maker with a similar turbine that produces
between 60-120 kwh per month. I was just trying to point out that you can’t compare what commercial units can produce to these micro-wind turbines.
This appears to be a scam. If you want to read up on the subject you can get some good information at this site:
http://www.wind-works.org/articles/SmallWindTurbineSizetoMeetHouseholdConsumption.html
ffbk says:
“There are many factors that determine power output”
I see. So, what you’re saying is that there are things beyond the prop size and “past” the prop that can enhance power production?
FYI ffbj:
I don’t think the WindMaster is claiming that it can produce enough electricity for an entire home.
In fact at the beginning of this article it states 25 - 50% … perhaps you should read it>
Building a home in the White Mountains in a site where the wind seems to come directly from Mt. Washington to our house and where framing had to be suspended on occassion due to wind. The town has a ban on towers, but we are trying to find a rooftop turbine that would attach to the cupola as our house resembles an old barn. Any suggestions? We do not have a budget for this, but it seems a shame to ignore a tremendous energy source. Thanks.
Hi Victoria,
We posted about the Power Save turbine back in March. It looks like a good design, though it may be hard to find an effective turbine that is small enough to fit a cupola. It goes on sale this month and may be worth looking into. The problems confronting many people considering wind turbines are local zoning restrictions and actually finding a contractor and/or distributor of the product. You can get energy incentives/rebates from the Feds and some State agencies for alternative energy installations and the companies selling the hardware will usually have all that info at hand.
link to Power Save: http://www.power-save.com/wind.html
Now we see what this site is all about!
At first rd seems to support “skeptic ones” faulty formula and math to the detriment of Freetricity’s WindMaster.
Then he (rd) totally ignores that very same math (and formula) to promote a product that costs more and produces less than any version of Freetricity’s WindMaster including the grid tie unit!
I believe I referred to Skeptic One’s math as “crazy math”. I’m not trying to push either product on anyone since we haven’t tested either. I just happen to like the design of the Power Save unit and suggested Victoria check it out. I presumed Victoria had read about Freetricity’s product since she commented on the post. The numbers projected by all these small wind manufacturers are open to skepticism and rely on optimal wind speed to reach projections. The small turbines are all designed to offset power use not cover your whole electric bill. Do you work for Freetricity?
I appreciate the excitement over a sustainable power source. The issue to me is, there is no independent test verifying the power output. Without credible testing a manufacturer can make outrageous claims. Is this system even UL approved?
I do not believe in Eco Halos and expect standards that cross compare Wind or solar devices in common easily understood terms.
This company fails at that task.
In my opinion this is “eco-snakeoil”.
I am a bit suspicious of power save too. This is what their own auditor had to say about them:
Power-Save Energy Comp. Receives a Going Concern Opinion from Gruber & Company, LLC
12/5/2007
Power-Save Energy Comp. filed its Annual Amendment on December 05, 2007 for the period ending December 31, 2006. In this report its auditor, Gruber & Company, LLC, gave an unqualified opinion expressing doubt that the company can continue as a going concern.
rd says:
“Do you work for Freetricity?”
No! I monitor press release activity, sometimes I comment.
Hi I am Troy. In 05/07 I bought a distributorship and three of the Freetricity units. Between then and 11/07 I recieved no working units. I along with 5 other distributors asked for a refund and were refused. Not one person that I know of has ever gotten one of these units to charge a battery. A more complete timeline is on my website at http://www.trolorenterprises.com my phone number is there as well. I would be happy to answer questions. I do believe that this is an internet scam. You should be careful as this guy is very good at talking.
I think Marshall on “MovingLikeWater”s blog spot summed this guy troy up perfectly.
***
Marshall:
ConnieK to Troy: “It looks as though you yelled scam way too early and look foolish because of it.”
“That’s exactly what happened! I stumbled across this while searching for wind power and have read it all too Connie. Four things stick out:
1) Troy “signed” his contract with them on his second trip out to visit with them that was “several months” after his first!
2) Freetricity is NOT the first company he has signed up with and then claimed scam!
3) I have emailed (explanation next) 10 of their distributors that I found building their websites and asked their opinion of Freetricity and have received 8 responses back. They all say pretty much the same thing. They are happy the development stage is through and the WindMaster looks and preforms as hoped. Two guys in PA and NY were totally stoked with the end product.
4) I wanted to become a distributor for them and was told that my area as well as my surrounding areas were already taken!
Some scam.”
***
Looks like you’re being outed Troy.
From ConnieK (at mlw)
“Troy:
If it were such a scam why isn’t there dozens of posts about it? Other than you and a few “questionable” others? From what one gathers from reading all this is that you joined them during a product development stage. And that that product development period resulted in the Windmaster and the subsequent press release that led to this article and several others like it.
It looks as though you yelled scam way too early and look foolish because of it.”
Read it @
http://www.movinglikewater.com/?p=92#comment-119
Since I have been reading all the Freetricity stuff for about a month now I think in the essence of fair play that Troy and his message be exposed.
It’s important to know the messenger.
HHmmm As to way too early I can only go on the information that the company gives me. When I paid them 05/07 they told me that they had 70,000 working units up and running all over the country and that my three units would ship in 8 days. They also told me that I could rely on an 8 day order to ship time as I sold the units. I recieved my first nonworking unit around three months later. After six months my order was still not filled. That is the same order they promised would ship in 8 days. I don’t know about anyone else but I can not run a business based on delivery like that.
You say that you have “talked” to a number of happy customers. Well I actually am a customer and I actually have the products that they sent me to sell. I am looking at them first hand and can see that they are not what I was told they were. I can see that they don’t charge a battery and I am happy to let you drop by and see as well.
Again if you want one of these then please buy it. Become a distributor if you like. I am not here to argue with any idividual. I am not speaking for anyone other than myself. I am only telling how Freetricity has treated and continues to treat me when I requested a refund at the end of that six months, after dozens of broken deadlines and promises made by Carl. Everyone here is an adult and can make their own decisions.
Terrance-did you recieve yours yet? I just want to know how well it operates.
Thanks,
Lisa
Lisa, yes I just got it. I put the windmill up but I returned the inverter and charge controller because I want to upgrade to their grid connect inverter.
It is well built and has been busy spinning since I put it up on Tuesday.
Troy, didn’t you sign your contract with them several months after your 5/07 initial investment (that is what you stated on another blog)?
That fact diminishes your entire argument.
Terrance,
So you’re saying that you automatically decided to upgrade your unit at a cost of thousands of dollars, before you even know if the one you have works. Sounds to me like maybe you are the one who is gullible.
Hi Wendy,
What a nice thing to say but, I was smart enough to read the voltage and current levels before making that decision.
Well Terrance I am not sure how that diminishes my argument. Like everything else that Freetricity promised me they did not deliver. The contract was not mailed to me as promised when I orignally paid. Then the wesite link that they set up didn’t work. After that the area on the link was not correct. Of course time was passing by between each of these problems. As I stated in the same post you mention up until November when I finally had evidence in my hand that the unit was not what they had sold me I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and still working as if this was a real product and I was a loyal distributor. So yes I signed the contract once they finaly provided it, and I spent money promoting their product based on their promises. That is why I have an appology to my customers on my website. Defending myself on here really strikes me as a little silly. I was a Freetricity distributor. I payed them money and I payed more money to set up my business. If this product worked and was deliverable why on Earth would I not be selling it? There is no one here that wanted this to work more than me. What possible gain would there be for me in here? If this would have been real I would not want my money back I would be rolling in money selling this.
i need more information on costs and stock availability on your small wind turbines. do you have an agent in South Africa.
Troy,
You don’t “see” it so I suspect you never will!
Why don’t you tell us about the other company you became a part of then yelled scam and fraud? Maybe it will help us understand you better.
Shane,
Visit Freetricity’s website @ http://www.freetricity.com
OK Terrance (or should we just say Carl)
Yes in my 47 years I have reported one other company for fraudulant practices. The company sold classes in stock trading and interestingly enough I just got an email from the us department of justice a few weeks back. I cut and pasted this one paragraph.
The United States Department of Justice believes it is important to keep victims of federal crime informed of court proceedings. This notice provides information about the above-referenced criminal case.
Charges have been filed against defendant(s) David Gengler, Linda Woolf. The lead prosecutor for this case is Derek Andreson. The main charge is categorized as Consumer Fraud.
I dont know David but Linda is the person that I complained about. So does that help you understand me better. You cheat me and I complain. Nothing more. As I said I am only asking for “my” actual cash back nothing more. No gain for me.
“OK Terrance (or should we just say Carl)”
Very predictable response Troy!
Everyone who now disagrees with you or questions your motives is now Carl? Is everyone Carl?
Again, this type of responses diminishes your position and like Connie said:
“makes you appear childish”!
Well Terrance, RP thinks you work for Freetricity I just think you are Freetricity.
You think I am predictable, and I think that could be due to the fact that I have been arguing with you for a year. I think I recognize you too. If I am wrong then big deal. You called me childish and I called you Carl…. OK I admitt that is not even so you call me something else, go ahead.
Anyway I answered your question about the other scam report I listed.
So I am off to the beach for a week. No phone no internet you have a blast in here and I will have to catch up when I get back.
Troy says:
“If I am wrong then big deal.”
That concept seems to define you.
Hmmm I think that the fact that the other people I listed as scam are being charged by the DOJ. That I have put my name, phone, and address on the net and invited anyone that wants to call or come by and look at what I was sent for themselves what defines me, but then that is just me.
When I first saw this system, what struck me was the rudimentary design of the blade system. The foils appear to have no twist, little camber, little tapering, no winglets, no cone, no advanced concepts whatsoever, and appear to be riveted at the root. This thing looks like a hunk of junk that would fly itself apart over 50 kts. Very suspect IMHO.
I stumbled onto this BB after having read about the freetricity wind turbine.
I emailed freetricity and asked if they had a system that could be mounted on an existing tri-tower that had been used for a TV antenna when my wife and I first moved into our home 32 years ago. The tower in 30 ft high and in good condition, so why not use it?
They wrote back and told me that they would have a grid system that would mount onto my existing tower in about 90 days.
So, I’ll wait and see, unless something else comes along before then.
Compared to other wind systems out there, this one seems almost unbelievably cheap in price.
I would love to get an actual testimony from someone who has used this system for 6 months or so to get a good reading on just how productive it is.
Terrance says that he sent part of his system back to upgrade it to a grid system. Have you received your upgrade yet Terrance ?
And, is it up and running yet ?
By nature, I am a skeptic.
I’m no mathematician, I’m a retired Postmaster, so throwing around numbers doesn’t do much for me.
I’m a simple guy living in West Virginia and as the old saying goes, ‘the proof of the pudding is in the eating’.
Certainly there has to be someone somewhere who has used the freetricity system and can comment on it’s effectiveness or lack thereof?
Stephen, I think you answered your own question in relation to Freetricity. If this was a legit product, you would be hearing some believable testimony from people. Instead, you hear hyperbole from Freetricity itself and a few others questionable defenders on here and some other forums. When someone hits them with a legitimate scientific or mathamatical equation on how these things can’t do what their claiming, they call it faulty math, or just totally ignore the question. The whole thing sounds suspect to me, but hey, it’s your money.
I don’t tend to be foolish with my money, Wendy.
And I won’t be in this case either.
As I said, I’m no mathematician so I don’t know whose math is ‘faulty’ or not.
Just looking for information at this point.
I found another site Pacwind.net, which sells vertical axis wind turbines.
No prices shown, and I don’t know anything about this company either, so I’d be anxious to know if anyone has heard of them as well.
I smell a rat! I think I would have to agree with Troy: Terrance is probably Freetricity and is a scam artist. Having run a business for 10 years now, I know that if I had someone berating my customer base like this guy, his ass would have been on the street long ago. Even if this product is legit, I wouldn’t buy it. Why would I deal with a company this shady?
Well stated Frank. I’m with you on this. Troy has nothing to lose like he has said. When Christ comes again all things will be made right. It’s just having to endure these unfortunate life experiences that can be such a pain sometimes. Make no mistake about it, all will have to stand before GOD and be accountable for their own works one day if they do not accept Christ as their Savior and repent of their sins. Part of repentance is to admit wrong doing another part is to never repeat it again and again.
Steve
If you go to http://www.networksolutions.com and search for “freetricity.com” under WHOIS you will see this:
Visit AboutUs.org for more information about FREETRICITY.COM
AboutUs: FREETRICITY.COM
Registration Service Provided By: NetFronts Inc
Contact: dnsadmin@netfronts.com
Visit: http://www.netfronts.com/domain/renewdomain.htm
Domain name: FREETRICITY.COM
Registrant Contact:
Freetricity
Free Tricity (mail@freetricity.com)
+1.8004443245
Fax:
41707 Winchester Road
Temecula, CA 92590
US
Administrative Contact:
Freetricity
Free Tricity (mail@freetricity.com)
+1.8004443245
Fax:
41707 Winchester Road
Temecula, CA 92590
US
Technical Contact:
Netfronts Inc.
DNS Admin (support@netfronts.com)
+1.8014970878
Fax: +1.8019918889
459 North 300 West
Kaysville, 84037
US
Status: Locked
Name Servers:
NS1.startlogic.com
NS2.startlogic.com
Creation date: 30 May 2005 21:01:02
Expiration date: 30 May 2008 21:01:02
I don’t know if they’re REALLY at this address in Temecula, California but their domain name will EXPIRE on May 30, 2008 unless they extend it!
Also, I don’t think their design will work very well. It looks more like a sculpture than a real wind power system IMHO.
And if they rip-off a retired postal worker they may just end up in PRISON!
Terrance,
Its been about a month since you were on here spouting off about buying and receiving your Windmaster and then nothing since. What’s up?
Have you still not received your upgrade yet after a month. If this is the case, then that sounds suspicious. A company that cannot provide an upgrade component in a months time has some problems. Or is it that your Windmill isn’t doing as advertised and you don’t want to come on here and admit it. Which is it?
For some info. on the turbines in Coachella, it would be wise to look into the facts. Originally those were put in for investors for a tax write off. In the course of there lives those windmills have constantly broke down! The cost and maintenance has not been a positive cash flow, unless you consider taking a loss for tax purposes positive. I would say they have been good for technology and used for experimental purposes, not to mention that the wind blows there constantly
Look like Troy’s little fraud about Freetricity has been exposed. From Marshall at Moving Like Water:
“*** Hilarious Alert ***
Troy … the main crybaby and one who screams scam about Freetricity WAS OFFERED A REFUND a couple of weeks ago and >>> TURNED IT DOWN!
Now you all know the true character of that “gentleman”!
And for all you other whiners out there … the WindMaster was only released in late March. Given the time to receive one 4-6 weeks just how many positive reviews could have been posted by now?
Especially given what anti-new anything this site is? Someone (like me) posts positive info about it and I get jumped on! You people are amazing … but go ahead and keep your heads in the sand… I hear it’s much cooler there!”
Oh what a woven web you weave hey Troy?
Hey Terrance, Interesting how you and Marshal coordinate.
As to Freetricity’s offer it was ridiculous and it was made after I had sent my filing to small claims. At this point I am happy to let the judge work out the web. Afterwards you can post those results in here and the argument will be over one way or the other.
TERRANCE THE WINDMASTER IS NEW BUT WHAT ABOUT THE E2D 300,600 AND 1200 WHY IS THER NOT 1 WORD OF TESTAMONY ABOUT HOW WONDERFUL THEY ARE
NOT 1 WORD
Sounds like 2 guys should just take their bickering elsewhere. As for the Skeptic, It takes a certain amount of energy for a 200 lb person to go 1 mile up a 30% incline. He can use a single speed bike and I’ll use a 10 speed mountain bike. I can give him a web site to figure out the calculation how much energy is needed. I agree with Paul, there are enough regulators to shut down Freetricity if they are not real and are a scam. I checked the BBB and they have had 13 disputes and have a CCC rating. Does a scammer get that type of rating from the BBB? I don’t know much about the BBB, but I doubt it. I bought a Toyota Prius several years ago. Took a lot of ridicule from friends, read Hybrids aren’t worth the price. Looked on the Internet saw how Toyota was chastised for its development in the 80s. It is the ONLY car I’ve ever bought I will have saved money on gas and can resale for more then I paid for the car. I’m not selling it by the way! I live in a state that has one of the lowest prices for electricity so my pay off on any type of renewable energy is very long. I’m looking to save a little part of the environment, just like I did with the Prius. I hope that the windmill is valid and can reach into residential neighborhoods, so others can both be able to afford it and help also. I suspect that the claims on the KW hours per month are over stated, but have you ever looked on the stickers on the car for estimated MPG?
I agree with Tim, wow its just a f–king turbine trying to save some form of the environment. Americans really are f–ked up.
Nice article.
It is good to see that renewable energy sources and wind turbines in particular are getting more coverage now that there setup costs are coming down in price.
Has anyone checked with the California Energy Commission on any of their products being approved? To receive a rebate in my state it has to be on that list. Seems like most states go with what California decides, ie: known to the state of California to cause cancer; California thinks it will turn your teeth green; them thinks the contents of this package could be hazardous to your health, etc. My state let’s them lead the way!
Or checked the Underwriters Laboratory for the UL-1741 approval “they have received”.
I’m just jumping in to this discussion and I am an admitted newbie about residential wind power and Freetricity. However, I must say that I am baffled by the hostility some people exhibit toward the notion of augmenting one’s power supply by wind. Maybe the hostility is only directed at what is perceived to be a suspected scam, but it doesn’t seem like it. I get the feeling from these posts that some of the anger is directed toward anyone who claims that residential wind power is viable. If that’s the case, then that makes no sense.
I would love to be able to mount a turbine on my roof and reduce (or, better yet, eliminate) my electricity costs. Good for me, good for America, good for the environment. Whether or not this particular company has the capability to accomplish this or not, I dunno. But I have to believe that residential wind power is well within our grasp. My great-granparents used wind power to pump water on the farm. That was like a hundred years ago.
bottom line, does anyone have one installed? can anyone post valuable info on how it operates and ROI?
I would not call $2800 the “lap of luxury”, most residential homes are paying $300 per month or more in electricity costs. If you can reduce that by $100 per month, you can pay for this system in under 3 years, a pretty nice payback period. And, I have seen systems that cost $10 grand installed.
I called Freetricity today before I saw any negative postings….I’m glad I did my homework like a good boy should. I would have dumped money into this unit and been bent over in the end. For the skeptics goto BBB.com and type in Freetricity. You will find comments on poor business practices and a “D” rating.
Rich,
The people who exhibit hostility about wind power are the same people who believe that we can drill our way out of our current oil problems, don’t think our climate is in crisis and insist that driving a monster SUV is a personal finance decision that affects no one but themselves.
As with anything else, time will prove them wrong in the end.
I’m also happy to see that some companies are attempting to make wind power affordable for the little guys.
I don’t think anyone is hostile about going green in the scheme of things, just question the company products and ethics of those trying to get us there. Just would like to have the specific companies product backed up. Like my questions of June 25th, where is the quality backup information. Some of the older established companies have their UL and CEC credentials on line. This company has none nor is it in the works of those who certify generators, regulators. etc.
I had filed a small claims suit against Carl Vetts/Vettes/Veters and had a court date of Aug. 1. My intent was to not post until that case was over and then simply report the outcome. However Carl avoided the summons so I have now had him served in person and gotten a new court date of Oct. 2. I will post that outcome.
Just to clairify. This is not about or against wind or any green energy. I am all for it and am actively looking for and testing to see if I can find a usable turbine. I worked with the freetricity turbine for six months trying to get it to work. I think that answers another question asked above. Yes I had the unit mounted and no it did not work. Not at all. This is about letting people know that this is not a working product and from my experience with it I do not think it has ever been intended as a working product. His BBB rating is now a D. As I said I will report the outcome of the trial and then it is up to you.
Been a few months since I last posted here, and to be honest, am no closer to finding an affordable turbine system with good marks than I was back in May.
I think everyone here have gotten the message that Freetricity is pretty much a bum company and that we all should avoid it like the clap.
That being said,
Does ANYONE here have a turbine installed, know someone personally who does have one installed, or can provide factual figures on costs and return?
Check out our latest post on the Windspire turbine.
http://www.alternativeconsumer.com/2008/08/04/windspire-wind-power-at-an-affordable-price/ It costs about $5,000 and has been independently tested.
Does anyone know what Jay Leno has mounted on his automobile warehouse? He raved about it on a History/Discovery/Learning Channel special on renewable resources. He says he powers his entire warehouse and then some with the units he has mounted on the roof. Granted, he gets tremendous amounts of wind generated from the jets as they take off, being right next to the airport. Seems to me that the vertical axis windmills are more efficient and can be smaller than the traditional propellor type.
Ryan,
I watched the same thing about Leno, and I do believe he has one of these Windspire generators. The one thing I remember though is I believe they were talking about it being more in the range of $20,000 to $30,000. Maybe it was a much larger one than the one they have for $5,000.
‘It costs about $5,000 and has been independently tested.’
Ok…
Assuming an additional $2,500 for installation and rewiring your house to run a ‘net’ electrical box,
etc.
And with a production rate of 2,000 KWH per year, how long does that take to recoup your $7,500 investment at the average National KWH cost for electricity ?
Pac Wind is the company that designed the turbine Leno uses. They have several models to choose from.
It is interesting that claims by Freetricity about the E2D Windmaster are significantly greater than any competitor makes about their own micro turbine but they seem unwilling to subject them to any independent tests.
They also do not advertise the product through any of the established websites and communities that cater to wind power professionals or serious hobbyists. You would think it’s superior performance would be appreciated by people with direct knoledge of the topic. But instead they seem to target their marketing directly to people with little or no knowledge of wind power.
Example, look at any small turbine being sold on the internet and they will show you a “power graph” for each unit. A chart where the vertical axis is measured in watts produced and the horizontal axis indicates at what wind speed. The E2D WindMaster has a power graph as well, but it shows volts produced at given RPM number with no indication of what wind speed is needed for the unit to perform at that level. Voltage is not power(watts). A Van de Graaff generator produces incredible voltage numbers at fairly low RPMs but very little real power, which is why they can make your hair stand on end without frying you.
All Freetricity needs to do to silence most of their critics is to take their product to NREL’s test site or any of the other reputable independent testing facilities and prove once and for all what their E2D Windmaster really can do. The longer they refuse to do so the more some people will think they have something to hide.
To anyone thinking about purchasing a wind turbine, please educate yourself before buying. wind-works.org is a fine place to start. I am willing to bet the more you learn about the topic the less attractive Freetricty’s products will be to you.
Good post helpful stranger. I think the people being critical on here of anyone questioning Freetricity’s motives need to know that we are not anti-green. Quite the opposite. We just don’t want people to get ripped off, and that is good possibility if you buy their product. I also agree with you about them trying to market their products to people who have none or very little knowledge of renewable enery. But to their credit, it does make their jobs easier, right.